Episode 3: Pay to Play... The Truth Behind Vendor Recognition and Media Placement

adrienne_5_07-28-2025_092449: [00:00:00] What are we talking about today, Leorah?

leorah_4_07-28-2025_092432: What are we here talking about

adrienne_5_07-28-2025_092449: We're talking about pay to play today. Right?

leorah_4_07-28-2025_092432: We are talking about the landscape of publication today.

leorah_4_07-28-2025_092432: Did you ever wonder if that dreamy wedding feature was. Earned or if, someone paid for it,

adrienne_5_07-28-2025_092449: You know what's wild is I've always thought they were earned. I think that this topic has really brought a lot to light for me. I'm so excited about our guest today , because I was one of those people who didn't know this was a thing. I'd see the pictures in Vogue I would see these logos and I would be like, oh my God, that's so cool.

adrienne_5_07-28-2025_092449: I wanted to be that.

leorah_4_07-28-2025_092432: I didn't realize it either. But it makes a ton of sense. I mean, I pay for advertising all the time, under the banner of it being advertising. , But there is some sneaky folks out there who will pay for advertising and then really let us know that that's what it is.

leorah_4_07-28-2025_092432: So, We're here today to pull the veil

leorah_4_07-28-2025_092432: On styled shoots on features fine [00:01:00] print of editorial. And pay to play. And we're so lucky because my dear friend Megan Ely is here.

Entry song Do, do. Welcome to, it's just My Face with Adrienne and Leorah. It's just my face is the after party where event pros get real about the work, the wins, and the what the fuck moments We're gonna be mixing stories, strategies, and yes, some rants. But we're here to help you grow your business, lead your team, and keep your sanity in this chaotic world we call the event industry.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: It's official. We have Megan Ely here with us on, it's Just my face today. What a pleasure. Megan. Welcome.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Thank you. I am, I am absolutely thrilled to be here.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: It is such a pleasure for me. Um, I have known you well secretly. I attended wedding MBA in like 2017, I think.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Oh my gosh,

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: [00:02:00] And you were the first speaker I went to see and I didn't know anything Uhhuh.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Oh

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: And I was like, who's this girl? I, she's so neat. And like she had the fullest session and everyone was there.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: And I was like, wow, that was really great. And I was still brand new into what I was doing and trying to get my foot in. And then fast forward to wpa.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Yes.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: CID then it was 2021. I was president of our Colorado chapter and I was so honored. Because you were president of National?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And it was so fun to get to know you. I'm getting little goosebumps here because I got to know you and very quickly I was like, oh, we are the same. Like

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: We're the same. I,

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: about us that are exactly the same. Like this is gonna be fun. Like

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: yeah,

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: these are like, take no crap ladies over here. And we got a lot done

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: we,

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: we had together.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: sure did. I mean, it was a tough time. It was the year coming out of COVID, we had to wrangle the troops and get everything back on track

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Mm-hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: we're both processy [00:03:00] people

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Yes.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: and need some organization and I, I'm just like, I was not gonna let anything slip away. We needed to reorg, get shit done, put, put things back on track, and I was so, so lucky and honored to get to work alongside you for that time.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And likewise. It was so much fun. So, yeah. And then we lived happily ever after.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: then we lived happily ever after. And so when we, when Adrian and I started the podcast, you were the first one to reach out and say, oh my God, I wanna be on it. And I said, Adrian, we gotta have Megan on this show.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Well, and and from my side too, genuinely, like I'm doing these searches for new to me podcasts all the time. Like I have like a recurring task and before I realized you were attached to it, which obviously I figured out very quickly, but I was immediately enamored with the name of it.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: 'cause I gut it immediately. I was like, it's just my, I was like, okay, I could, I can hang with these guys. But once I saw it, it was like, I was like, wait a minute. Now Adrian, I knew of you a little bit, but Leo is the one who I was like, I know that lady. [00:04:00] So, yes. I was so excited for you guys. I think you're bringing such a fresh perspective to things, so it's awesome to be here.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Well, we're so happy to have you.

adrienne_3_07-28-2025_080942: Megan, when I asked you what you wanted to talk about, you and I were having another conversation. You drilled into this in about 0.2 seconds. There was no discussion.

adrienne_3_07-28-2025_080942: There was no like, let me think about it. It was like, I want to talk about this. , Why do you have such a passion for this subject?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Well, first of all, love the vibe of what you guys are putting out already, and I thought, I've always thought to myself it would be great, especially more recently for a couple of reasons that it would be great to tackle this. Two reasons. One in particular, there's this misnomer. So many people say, well, everything's pay to play these days.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I'm like, it's not like, it's not like I wouldn't have a job if everything would like, that's not how that works, as my 12-year-old tells me all the time. But the other part of it is, in addition to that, I'm seeing. know, I'm seeing where people are looking at these as some of these paid opportunities, which you're gonna see.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I definitely have support for some of the ideas [00:05:00] of what's going on out there. And people, it's vanity metrics and people start to equate their success to them. And I'm like, hold on a minute, hold on a minute. Like if we're gonna start comparing our successes to a paid placement, I don't think that's very fair to anybody.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And so I felt very passionate and I always knew it could be an interesting, maybe a little messy, maybe a little controversial talk, but it had to be with a group that I could talk with, that we could speak candidly with each other. So

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Love that.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: out now said, I was like this, as long as you're on board, I think this is a done deal, that we should tackle this.

Before we jump in here, let's take a hot second to talk about Megan and your background. So if you guys don't know, Megan is the founder, principal, owner, all the things of OFD Consulting. She was named Speaker of the Year. I mean, all of her clients are in magazines from, you know, yang to Yang.

, And we are so honored to have her here. , But Megan, I think our [00:06:00] listeners would love to hear just a little bit more actually about how you got your start in events. I think we all know where you're at now, which is amazing, but love to hear just, uh, where you came from.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Well, it's, you're kind, it's. Incredibly dorky, but it was a career test and high school told me I'd be good at this. And I, I'm a rule, I'm a rule follower, so I'm like, well, sounds good to, I guess this is it, you know, decided shout out to Winne Kent High School for figuring it out for me.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: But no, no, I really that I actually took a career test that said I'd be good at PR and I'd already had a fascination with the media, wanted to be Lois Lane growing

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: um, in the eighties and nineties, and. It, it made sense. And so over time, I, I made the decision to go to school for it, which was, and it was just, I fell in love with it.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And, and while I was there, I had a bit of a, a pull towards the wedding industry. It was kind of, albeit it was arbitrary, like I just thought it looked like a fun industry, loved those kind of magazines, things like that. And so I was driving to the grocery store one day [00:07:00] and thought I should be in the wedding industry.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Like, I wish it was less arbitrary, but it is what it is. And I decided to, you know, obviously finish up with pr, but to go ahead and seek out maybe some opportunities working in events. And so I did work in events for about seven years. I worked in venues while also. Continuing on with my love of PR and marketing by doing projects, basically I'd go to the venues and say, if I can book the crap outta this place, like, can you, like, if I can meet and all sales goals, will you give me more?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Like, who asked for more work? Will you give me more work in the pr? And they, they acquiesced. And then later on the time came to go out on my own, um, during the middle of a recession, had just bought a house with my now husband about to pay for a wedding. So it was not the best time to do it, but that would take like a bottle of wine to tell that whole service a little earlier than expected.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I bet it, I bet on myself that time. I moved to a part-time job where I could, you know, somewhat pay the bills and started OFD in 2009. So I've been doing that. I mean, it's obviously evolved with what I [00:08:00] do, but I've been doing that ever since. And I've been on stages since the minute I started OFD as well because I knew that there wasn't traditional advertising ways for me to get the word out about me.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: So I

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Right.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: go out and educate and help people, that might be a good way to increase brand awareness as well.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: That's great. megan, we're here to talk about pay to Play today. And I think that, to get started, I think it's really important if you could break down what pay to play versus earned media is for folks who may not know.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Sure, I'm gonna break it down, but I'm gonna break like into subcategories as well, if that's okay. So the 30,000 view is this. If you are in a position where you have great work, beautiful photos, quotes your words, your content, it's being featured, and money was exchanged in some sort of way, that is advertising, that is pay to play, okay?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: That is gonna be what we consider pay to play. And then earned media is when your accolades are being put out there. It could be a beautiful wedding, a styled shoot, [00:09:00] uh, your quotes and no monies exchanged, with the exception of, of course, if you're working with a publicist, right? So it's editorial versus advertorial.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Advertorial is when you're paying for placement. Editorial is when it is earned. When an editor looks at it and says, that's great. We wanna feature it Now, if I may for just a moment, break down advertorial a little bit more. Here is Pay to play could mean a few different things. It could mean I have literally played paid for that placement.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I wanna be on this in this magazine at this time. There's also something called advertorial where, which is what I think we're really gonna get into today. Average, truly with the pay to play model is. mimics native content. So you, you guys know when you have an ad, you know it's an ad, right? Like it's like a big old ad in a publication.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: It's, or maybe like at a podcast, right? You know, when there's like, this is brought to you by our sponsors, but when it's an advertorial in a pay to play sense, it mimics native content. So while you have to follow all the rules, which I'm sure we'll get into about seeing it sponsored, [00:10:00] it's not clear from it's supposed to, it's not clear from the get go.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: It's supposed to look like it is, but I just wanna take a moment. 'cause I think you've got that kind of yin and yang. There's also one other, and I think it's used interchangeably and shouldn't, there's also the pay to play aspect of which I, I'm, I'm back and forth whether I consider this pay to play, but there's also the advertiser only model where you've got blogs, publications, who they're doing editorial content, but it's only from their advertisers.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And I think sometimes

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: about it, they're interchanging the two. Those are two very different. Things that we're talking about there. So I just wanted to break it down before we get, but, but really what it comes down to is who has control on the outcome and was their money exchanged?

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: What drew you to be an advocate? For transparency on this issue.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I think what it comes down to is seeing how people feel about themselves when they see advertorials and not realize it's advertorials.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: that's what it came down to. I think that [00:11:00] in this world where earned media, I truly believe is such a big of the puzzle for promotional strategies, I see how successful it can be for people.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Like I see it every day and I love that. But then I see where people gauge their success up against something that was a clearly a paid placement, but they didn't realize that.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Right.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: then that becomes a real problem. And so I think it just came to a point where, again, I'm a rule follower. I, I had my high school told aptitude test told me what I should be, so I follow that throughout as well.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And it just came to a point where when I see people using, uh, as a measuring stick for success because they can identify between the two are realize it's happening. That's where I have a problem when people don't feel good about themselves because they're comparing themselves to something that's, um, not necessarily what's really happening.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: So I just, I feel like we all, it's hard enough in this industry where, where we are made for illusions. I mean, that's our job, right. A lot of the time. And to give these illusions that aren't always what they truly are,[00:12:00]

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah, , it sometimes feels like it's tough to keep up, right? When you see people doing all these things and you think that you're not living up to what you should be doing or your business isn't as accessible however that might feel personally.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: we have prospects who come to us and they'll say, Ugh.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Okay.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: so frustrating because it seems like everyone's getting into X. And like, and I'll say, well let's talk about X for a second and, and send me some links. I'm like, these are all paid, these,

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I mean, I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, I'm just saying why compare yourself to someone who wrote a check to a publication to get featured?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Like, uh, you, you might be able to do that too if you wanted to.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah. That it brings up so many layers and so many more questions. I think that we need to dig into because of how we feel about our stature in the industry and how we measure our success based on all this. But again, this is something that I think not a lot of people are aware of.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Mm-hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: the nuance that you do because you are the expert, you're the PR person, and not all wedding industry [00:13:00] folks have the ability or accessibility to a PR professional like yourself.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Mm-hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: why do you think that so many vendors still don't understand how submissions and placements actually work?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I think it's just because it's not their day to day, right? I mean, I think about the things I do for my own company. I'll be honest, after 16 plus years, I'm outsourcing more than anything. So I, you could ask me how to do something, I'm like, sh I don't know. I have someone who can kind of help with that.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And I think that's the same with Wedding Pros. Um, as they continue to grow into the role, whether they're working like you, and you and I are both venue people,

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: the years there were teams who would do all of that. So it wasn't necessarily my day to day to know that. And then you've got wedding Pros who they've got a million things going on, and to add this on top of it, you know, it, it starts to become overwhelming.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: So I don't blame it. I mean, there's plenty about the industry. I don't know. And there are plenty of times people come to me with market, like an SEO question. I'm like, not the right girl for you.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: and I think that also, may I say it's evolving all the time. I mean, so. [00:14:00] has changed in the world of like every year we do the state of the wedding media in January and it changes every single year.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Like what's kind of, what's the up and coming, what people are doing, how people are posting. You know, for example, I'm seeing right now a rise in, and this is due with pay to play, so I'll keep this short, but like as an example, some publications, it's not yes or no anymore. It's yes no, or Instagram only feature.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: That's a totally different ball game than what we saw e even a year ago. And so there's just so much to keep up with. That's why it makes it incredibly hard. And I never want someone to feel bad that they can't keep up. 'cause I mean it takes, there are four of us to

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Right.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: at OFT.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Oh, wow. So in my experience, and , again, I'm not a planner, I'm not a photographer, I'm a venue. , And I always was trying to get my venues featured and get our weddings published or do styled shoots and get those published, especially like circa 20 18, [00:15:00] 20 19, earlier than that as well.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Mm-hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: And recently I've done some things and, the photographers are like, well, we don't really feel like we wanna get published, or, well, it's just, it's not the same effort that we once had. , That's not where we're gonna put our energies into.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: , Has it changed? Is getting published still as , coveted

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Mm-hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: of a goal that it used to be,

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: It is, but for different reasons. So I think if I could pick one thing that has just why, why I am not surprised you're telling this to me. It's, it's two things actually. Lemme say I'm lying. It's gonna be two things. The first thing is it's just taking longer. I mean, it is taking it, like we have stuff featured at some of the national stuff.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Some of it is a quick turnaround. Some of it's six months turnaround. Some of it is 12 to 18 months. Which is wild to me,

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: at a exclusive level where you can't really share a lot before it goes live. Like that's a big ask for people. And I think that the wait time is frustrating. A lot of it stems from, you know, COVID hit staffs were, I mean, their layoffs all the time.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: We just saw brides.com had a huge slew of layoffs at the beginning [00:16:00] of the year. I'm sure that I, I have to assume that's impacted how they do things, but. You had all these layoffs, you had more people wanting to get published and seeing the benefits of it. And what's happening is, you know, these guys don't necessarily have the staff to support that.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: My heart goes out to 'em, of course.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: so it's just taking long, it could take six to eight weeks just to have someone look at it and tell you yes or no. Can you imagine? Like what if you, yeah. And if they say no, then what happens is that they have to send it out again for six to eight weeks. And so I think people are. Getting tired of like the link. It's just this push and pull, right? And then the other side of it is not just the length of time, but frankly there are people who have really had a solid Instagram game, like solid, and they've got a huge audience. And it may not make sense to wait a year when they can come up with a great strategy on their own social channels.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Like they might look at it and say, Hey, this could go to X, but I rival. they're doing in terms of [00:17:00] audience. And if I put this out on my own and I get it on my own blog, like it will have its own benefit too. So those are two big reasons. I think we're seeing some people say that I just can't put the time in unless I, I can delegate it to someone.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Right.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: question of like, are people still saying yes, but they're using it differently? It's, it is social proof what we're seeing. I do, I read tons of research. We just had a fresh batch come in of what couples are looking for. And even splendid insights. Lynn does a great job over there of showing that press does matter to some couples, but really that social proof, like the Gen Z coming in

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: um, knowing everybody around you thinks you're great, that's gonna be important to them.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: But it's also the SEO benefits. I mean, keeping up with these great, like I would contend. That I would hope a lot of the photographers wanna get featured to maintain and, and better those relationships with venues and planners. It's wild to me that they wouldn't think that, you know?

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: yes, it's still something that people are excited about, but for different reasons.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: But there are a couple of [00:18:00] huge reasons why it's not attractive to everybody anymore.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: So interesting. , what do you feel are some common myths that vendors have about getting published?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I think the biggest myth we hear where people are saying, well, it's only pay to play. You have to pay for everything these days.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: the matter is that's not true. That's an even close to being true. Um, I mean, otherwise we wouldn't be getting hundreds of features a year, right? Like that's, it's earned media primarily when it comes to that.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And so there are plenty of amazing. Editors out there, um, especially a lot of like local niche publications who really want the best content for their audiences, and there's absolutely no money exchange when it comes to that. So I think that's the biggest misnomer. The other misnomer is like only the photographer can submit, and that's

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Oh.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Like the fact is. The photographer owns a copyright 99% of the time they have to be on board in some semblance of way. To your point, Lera that is

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: to ask, make sure it hasn't been anywhere, blah, blah, blah. But I, I think planners are who we tend to work with almost the [00:19:00] most when it comes to that, which doesn't surprise me after all these years, but also florist and designers and venues would greatly benefit from this as well.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And so I think the misnomer is it's the go, it's the photographer that's in, it's like, well, no, you need their permission. You have to get their virtual blessing on, on your photo selection and things like that. Like keep them in the loop. But it's, it's not just in the hands of the photographer, really.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Anybody can do it. I would contend that some categories will benefit more than others. I'm not necessarily recommending my hair and makeup friends. I just talked to one of our stationary clients about it and it was like, we can never guarantee how many stationary photos are gonna be used as well when it comes to that.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: So those are like the two big misnomers that, that I find myself having to chat with people about.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah. That brings up another question for me too, talking about how it can take six to eight weeks to even have somebody look at it in the first place. Does that mean that they can't be posting their social media in the meantime

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: It depends on the publication. For the majority, you're okay being judicious and being very selective in showcasing a handful of images. [00:20:00] Most editors, every editor's gonna have a different exclusivity rule. You go to their submission page, it's all gonna be different.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Right. Um, but there are some top places. If we are looking like, we have one that we'd like to send out to People Magazine coming up, and we've already talked with them about, hey, like we, like if the couple wants to do this, we have to hold off and on sharing any photos. But luckily it'll be a quick yes or no from people if, when we hear back from them.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Um, Vogue's, another one, New York Times is another one. Like I would not. So I would not want anything out, um,

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: that. But, and there's a few others as well, but those are the main ones. And so, um, if you're in the clear and you're looking at city's publication, like, well, we're okay with a few photos. The biggest thing, it's, it's being judicious.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: That's what you have to do. You, you pick a handful, maybe not your top ones, not the ones you're sending into the publication and you make sure people don't go bananas with 'em. Because we have, we have, oh, I've had some Heartbreakers over the years where it's like, well the couple's kind of well known and they've already shared and it's had a million views.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And I'm like, ah, it's too late for the big one. Like, it just, we can't.[00:21:00]

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Right.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: We can't do it, unfortunately. And so you have to remember that these publications, they want rights to publish, but that the first rate to publish, that's what exclusivity is. And it says, listen, because you have to get in the mindset, right?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: These

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: want to be the first ones to showcase. They're looking for having more people come to their site. 'cause more of an audience means more money in the end, right? That's, that's how the income works. And so at the end of the day, I would say stick to a handful on Instagram. Once you've figured out exactly the plan and make sure as much as I, as a former venue person, loved receiving galleries from photographers so I could use the content. send that out until you've gone ahead and done done the thing.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Megan, you started off with the difference between paid and unpaid and that brings up, the topic of camouflaged advertising

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: so if I'm looking at something, I'm looking at maybe a vogue post or something like that, I am assuming, that it's earned, [00:22:00] right? Like if it doesn't show me otherwise, I'm gonna assume that. And I think you have an interesting take on some of this and how it's not that easy sometimes to tell if something is earned or paid.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And this is one of the things that stemmed this conversation today, and, and it's around the idea, like there's a lot of. Chitchat out there, be it on stages, um, on podcasts in Reddit forums about British Vogue in particular. Now, um, Vogue itself is the, the, the top tier goal of many of the wedding pros.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And there's amazing weddings that they do a lot of high profile and, and so and so forth. And those are all earned. Like we see 'em, they're gorgeous, and it's wonderful to like just take in this, these beautiful features. And I love celebrating for the people who do get those features. But British Vogue in particular is one that there is a paid to play model.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: It doesn't mean all of them aren't earned. Like, I mean, some of them are earned, okay, but for, for a lot of them it is a paid placement. So what happens is they get connected with the folks over at British Vogue. [00:23:00] They pay X amount of dollars and it can be in a certain number of publication pages. So, you know, in. At no point am I, lemme just start by saying I'm not faulting anyone for doing that, but if they're gonna put their advertising dollars, okay, that's fine. They feel that that's gonna elevate and so and so forth. But the problem I'm seeing that we're kind of chatting about now, and you and I have talked behind the scenes and, and I have a real problem, is when it's disingenuous and so. What we see is people posting and they'll post something and they'll use the Vogue logo when it was British Vogue. So that first of all, not the right publication, you know, use. And that could just be, and I'm not saying that's a disingenuous move, it could just be a sloppy move. You know, they're just grabbing a logo.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: It could be miscommunication between them and their social media manager. Like, I'm not saying that's trying to be, you know, weird about it. So then that's the first thing. Um, then it's going to be how it's presented in their socials, right? Because the fact of the matter is, uh, you know, of course British Vogue is in the uk, so, but, but in the US if there's something that is a pay to play, the burden to note it's pay to play is actually the burden of the [00:24:00] publication.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: They should be using hashtag sponsored, hashtag partner, whatever the hashtags they've decided to do. I am not a media lawyer. So everyone can go find a media lawyer and talk to them about it. But, but it is the burden of the publication. Um, and, and so I'm not necessarily saying they have to have all the, you know, hashtags and stuff like that, but when people start to say, it's been my lifelong dream and I can't believe I'm in it and all these, but there's no, it's very much leaning towards earned this, that becomes a

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: had people who have said, I've seen people post no names. We're we all agree, we weren't naming names, but I've seen people post and say, well, the minute I stopped about press it all, it all just came flooding in. And it's like, well that was paid like what? I don't know. That seems a

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: not the real story. Um, so then that's a hard thing, the language that's put out there, and there are people who've done it well, and there are people who I've said, Ooh, it seems a little, I think the biggest cardinal sin now is, and I'm gonna use British folk as an example, and this, this has been done for other publications as [00:25:00] well, but just because we're on this for a second, is you'll have someone who fe got featured in, in Bridge Vogue, and whether they use the right logo or not, and whether they disclose anything or made it clear as part of a marketing campaign, they do or do not. But the biggest Cardinal sent to me is what they'll do is they'll show the page, right? Like, 'cause maybe you'll get the cover, maybe you'll get some beautiful photos from the beautiful wedding, but then you'll see the page where they were actually in the publication, which is great. Like it's, it's, it kind of ties it all together. But what you, what you'll see to Vogues credit, and I should say British Vogues credit, it says special advertising section, like they do their due diligence. It is very clear at the top, and what we're seeing is we're seeing people crop it out, or they're putting like a, maybe they're putting a white box, but it's no longer there.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I mean, it's there. it's not

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: on Instagram. And I think

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Sneaky.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: a pretty heavy line. It's like, well, you

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Sure.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: imagery like

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: as someone who, uh, you know, I work with the Associated Press a lot, and there's a lot of hoops to jump through to make sure you can't even, like, if you're working with Associated Press, you can't even change any coloring on a [00:26:00] wedding photo for it to be considered like it is strict.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I mean, see Kate Middleton crisis from a year ago. I mean, that's no, that, that's a huge dramatic thing you'd have made that we all had to live through, um, about how they altered photos and, and it's a big deal. And so to have people who you is a mistake here, there, the language isn't

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: what I would have suggested.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: But then to actually alter the image to make it seem like, like that's where I just have, I think it's disingenuous. I think it's unethical.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: would, you think they would do? Why would you do that?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: There's no, I'm convinced of it. Like there's no, there's no other reason they would do that. It, you could sit there and say, well, it fits better.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Well, no, it. Lying.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: just will never, as someone who has such a deep and respect for the media, I just, I, that's where I've, I've drawn a pretty heavy line and don't have a little wiggle room. I'll give wiggle room to the other stuff and say, well, maybe you messed up the logo. Maybe you just felt confused about how you should word it.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: But then to actually alter, uh, that page [00:27:00] is, is, um, dis unethical to me.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: And you think

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: that doing that because it makes them feel like they were accepted, that vogue, picked them up when in fact they paid dollars for that.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: can't speak on behalf of anyone who actually, like, we'd

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Sure.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: ask them to see. I would imagine though, I mean. You take out advertising and suddenly part of the story they didn't want told is not being told that.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Right.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: assume. Again, we can't make

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: but

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: sure.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: that seems pretty cut and dry to me, that people are cropping it out

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Just.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: want people to see that it was advertising.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: But again, we'd have to ask the, you'd have my next guest is, just kidding.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: We'll track

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Nice.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Well,

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: one.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: that.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: We'll fi

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: where the

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: find one.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: because I think that then couples can't tell the difference. Uh, even if they're discerning, they can't tell the difference. Um, and I think it goes back to, and this is just a personal thing, I just think the vendors feel like crap when they see all these floating around.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: It's like, well, let's, let's, let's talk about the metrics of success and

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: at these things and say, is this an actual metric or was [00:28:00] this, someone putting money out there in the universe?

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Right. Do you think the customers care?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Not enough. Sometimes I, I think they don't know to care. How about that?

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: know to care because they don't know it's a thing. I will

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Sure.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: and this is, gonna give you a soundbite. Megan Neely says, no, I think there is gonna be a reckoning. I think at some point this is gonna happen enough and someone is going to like, catch on from the world of, of couples and they're gonna say something because if, if there's anything Adriana with Ava, and the B is one of the smartest gals I know and she has a wonderful talk.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: She's talking about Gen Z. And, um, you know, she talks a lot about how these couples are very transparent with their

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And she, I remember her telling us a story at B Sage about, like, people on TikTok. I hope, I don't, I mess up the story, but something along the lines of on TikTok where I, I thought it was Chicago, but they just didn't feel like they were getting the prices.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: They like, they weren't. Able to get pricing from photographers [00:29:00] with ease. Like they had to really jump through some hoops. So this like bride created a spreadsheet of all the prices of all those Chicago photographers and made it free to everybody like public and which I was like, fine, I, whatever. Here's my pricing.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I mean, it is what it is. So I, I feel like there will be a reckoning at some point where some couple with enough of a following is gonna say, 'cause I do think couples care about the social proof and the As, CNN and, oh, my photographer was in this or that, or whatever, planner. And I think someone's gonna figure it out with just enough of a following and shit's gonna hit the fan.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: It just is. And that's what I tell people when they're like, well, should I pay for these things? Da da dah, dah, dah. And it's like, you can do what you want. If it's academically makes sense to you, do it like it's gonna hit your audience. It's all, but just make sure you do it with a bit of ethics behind it.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I don't wanna see you cropping out anything or using

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: and I just walk a straight line with it and you'll be fine.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Yeah, I think it's gonna take an influencer [00:30:00] couple. That hires a planner that was featured in X, Y, Z, it turns out to be bogus and they're gonna blow their shit up. 'Cause so much of what we do is based on these pretty pictures, right?

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: And who made them and, who produced that all the credit behind that. Pretty photo. People book their vendors based on these photos. So they, they do make these decisions based on what they see,

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: and, and there's

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: doing it. Well, I wanna do a positive shout out for a second. Junebug Weddings does an incredible job, like on their Instagram, they have a really great reel game in particular,

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: they will be clear when they're getting tips. It's from their advertisers.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Like, I I I, people do it well all the time

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: no problem. You know, I've had, I've had plenty of people who they've had paid placement and, you know, you just, you make sure the language is, is clear enough that, and, and I've actually had prospects come to me where I've noticed they've had like a, a, maybe it's British Vogue, maybe it's something else.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And I've complimented them and I said, by the [00:31:00] way, I saw that. And I just wanna say how much I, I admire your approach to that. Like, 'cause you don't see that enough, you know?

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: they giving credit to everyone just their advertisers? So like if it's a wedding and their photographer is a paid advertiser, are they giving credit to the photographer and the venue

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Every, every outlet's different.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Right.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: outlet's different when it comes to this. This is, we, I'm happy to say we're in this era of more transparency with the editors, and I'm, I'm thrilled because it was really messy a few years ago. So what we're seeing now is typically, and there's a lot of gray outlets, you do this, but you see the submission form and it will say, it will say, like, I, I'm, I dare say there's probably not any spot anymore that this is too many triple negatives here. Most places will always credit the photographer as a copyright holder, like they have to, and that wasn't always the case. It was crazy. But, but now you're seeing that they'll put it in the submission form, or if accepted, they'll be very clear with you. But it's important [00:32:00] that we, as people submitting, whether it's a publicist, whether it's someone on their own, which plenty do, they're discerning when they submit.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Because what if you look at, you're not just looking at these publications and saying, oh, is this a fit for me editorially? Which is like number one, right? But also, what kind of vendor love are they giving, right? Because if they're looking like we used to have a publication. Virginia living that was this really, it's like the big Virginia publication.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Super thick, super big, all these things. remember years ago when the wedding started, they had like a little wedding section, so it was a full page and they would split it. They would only list the venue and the photographer. So if the photographer wanted it, I was like, do you really wanna piss off the planner?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Is it worth it to be in Virginia living for that? I don't know. I don't, I don't, I'm a relationships person. Um, but there were messier times, which I think I, we divulged behind the scenes a little bit where, um, there were some times where we would have a publication and they would accept us. And I happen to catch wind by looking at it and saying, Hey, by the way, like we would represent a planner. The planner is getting credited here, right? They're like, well, no, [00:33:00] because they're not an advertiser. And I'm like, wait, what? Like, that was wild to me. There's

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: we just stopped submitting to because they had such a. Terrible vendor credit. Like we just don't recommend it.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Wow.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: it, luckily we're

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: anymore.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Most places have really come up with a firm plan and they're very transparent and, and I'm never gonna blame a publication for like, I do think that they should give extra love to their advertisers, the ones who support them. But we do need to make sure credit is where credit's due to the best of your ability, you know? Mm-hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Do you think other vendors know when something is paid?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: No, not a lot of the time. I think there's just a surprise and I think when someone presents something that's cropped out and wrong logos and like they're, they're

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: the mess, you know? And not, not

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: that. No, I think vendors are more aware than

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: percent. And I, I think, if I may say, I do think vendors get a little jaded about it when I think, I'm always like, well, you should have more of a business approach to it.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Like, I mean, people are gonna pay for placement. Advertising's not [00:34:00] anything new. I'm not blaming anyone for that. I just think it's how we present it. But yeah, no, I think a lot of them are, can be aware. I think not enough of them are, I think the bigger problem stems back to when we take our self worth and tie it into these vanity metrics that

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah. Right.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: real metrics, you

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: So, should they care and could the reckoning come from within the industry?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: You know, there's enough people talking about it that I'm, that, that it's, but it's never hit.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: never

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: to say I'm done with. You know what I mean? Like, and, and then, and so we go on, the news cycle continues. I mean,

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: it's it, and, and even if it does, even if a reckoning does come, people do come to the other side of that.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Does that make sense?

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: the years it's like you see, I mean, I'm just gonna get really controversial.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Love it.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: . In 2019, there was a huge pushback to feature plantations and big time. We don't do at

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: of our knowledge.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Like we've got all these things into place to not do that. But I mean, some of the [00:35:00] publications that were like, we're not doing plantations, are suddenly featuring plantations

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: so if that sort of. Doesn't live long in perpetuity. It's kinda like, yeah, reckoning could happen from within the industry, but then people bounce back to what they know, unfortunately when it comes to that.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: So I do think that it, it comes down to just staying educated and not to become like a therapist here. I am an unlicensed therapist for a second, but that we should value our successes based on other things. Like the press is great for social proof, it's great for couples to see, but I'm not a better person because I've been, I was in the New York Times in the last year, and it's amazing and it was like a life goal of mine and I'm so honored to have finally done it after being almost, I've been on the cutting room floor like a million times in 11 years, but it, it also didn't change my day to day.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: My bills are being paid. I still have a flex schedule. I have three cats that love me and a family.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: It's not tied, it's not tied to my day-to-day [00:36:00] happiness, nor should it be for anybody else.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: I think that's a great segue, Megan, into the discussion a little bit more of the emotional side of this, ? You've, you've tied on this a few times that you can't tie your self worth as an entrepreneur or as a marketing professional or any of these things to, this, right?

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: , There should be other ways that you. , Evaluate yourself, and your, performance as a business. So you're almost talking about like a mindset. ' I remember being a planner and seeing these publications and being like, oh my gosh, like if I don't get in there, if I don't do these things, like what does that say about me and my success, or lack thereof, or any of those things, right?

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: You said you're not a therapist, but it almost sounds like Yeah, we have to talk about almost like this mind shifts, of how we see the value in our performance as,

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: should

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: as wedding pros.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: be a tool. Press should be a tool to attract, um, like-minded vendors in a position to refer business to you and to [00:37:00] maintain relationships and to attract the ideal audience that will book you. That's what press is. Press is not here to make you feel good about yourself.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: It should never be here to make you feel good about yourself. And so when we talk about this. And I think this is something I had to do so many years ago. Now you're turning into my therapist where, you know, there's only a handful of people who do PR and we're all in very different cities. We do extremely different things. And you know, if I looked at some of the parties people were going to and things they were doing and I related myself to that and that's my worth, like that would just probably destroy me. And I think early on I learned that what I was doing was just gonna be different. And so I was very fortunate to determine early on what my metrics were gonna be for myself.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And I've rarely away from that. Now I know what I do is B2B, but I think other people can understand. , I just gotta ask this really thoughtful question about kind of during hard times, what drives you? So I would say finding those metrics and just recognizing that press is a tool. It's not an auto marker for how good you are.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Mm-hmm.[00:38:00]

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Thank you so much for sharing that. I'm sure so many of our listeners can understand those feelings like I have to be in these things and be seen, , and if I don't, , but then the extreme value that you place on your business and what it can do for you.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I'm gonna be very upfront with you guys, but 'cause you said something that really clicked with me, I know it's not quite pay to play. Bear with me. Quick deviation is

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Love it.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: being seen

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Team and I always have a push and pull about how much I should be on the road and where I should go and be seen.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: 'cause there's like all these fabulous conferences and it's a billion dollars to go to 'em and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. so in 2023 I did 90 days on the road, I spent a bajillion dollars and I was on the road and I was everywhere, photos everywhere, all the things in. And I was exhausted. Like by the end of 2023, my last event, I was having an like, it was like an amazing location.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Tropical, huge, beautiful living room suite, blah, blah, blah. But I was homesick for the first time. I was just exhausted and tired.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: So I said, I've gotta change something. So I cut in 20, 24 down to 42 days. [00:39:00] So about 50%. And

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Wow.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: watched my numbers like a hawk. And my, my profit went up.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: went up. And so this year, in the year for Lord 2025, I've dropped it to almost 30 days.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Very selective means I'm not gonna be at everything. There was a really beautiful, fancy London based conference we were all watching in

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: was gorgeous and amazing. And I was like, Ooh, that'd be so fun to be at. And I agree with that. Like I agree with myself on that, but the metrics are metricing and saying you can be home more and still

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: and be probably more successful.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: So I just wanted to put they show you in real time how statistics to me beat out my feelings.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: That's great because , there is also the pressure of feeling like if we don't, the fear of missing out, right. If we're not there, if we're not being

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: networking at the right times in the right places, then feel relevant.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Mm-hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: You know?

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: people don't remember us.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Yeah, but no one's gonna remember you. Remember you on a dance floor drunk at three o'clock in the morning at the after [00:40:00] party.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: That's why I never get the pressure to do the after parties. I'm like, they're all like, like no one's gonna remember whether I'm there or not.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: So I, I go to the things where I can actually, you know, be seen and, you

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Make an impact.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Yeah.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: And again, not to name names with the big wedding show that everyone goes to and spends so much money, but that also does feel a little bit like pay to play, right? Like

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: don't pay to show up does it feel like. You've earned the right to be there when you can afford to keep going four times a year and see the same people and like, I feel like those two are very closely related.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: think we have to be

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: how much weight we put on our own successes, whether we go to certain things. I'm gonna be the first to tell you, I've gone to a ton of luxury conferences here internationally. I've been all the way to the Middle

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: I

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: back, and there's been some incredible times I put money into those and I meet amazing people.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Usually I'm speaking, obviously I have a different, you know, when it comes to that. Um, but I do think people have to be careful how much, well, a couple of things. I'm gonna say [00:41:00] something like, now I'm really getting controversial how I, I wanna say this. We can't tie ourselves to whether or not someone's paying to go to that thing, whatever that thing is in search conference here.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: 'cause there's so many great ones out

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: right.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: But the other thing is too, and I'm, and, and this is just a, an educated guess here, so. There are people who register for the big ticket places and they go and they have the wardrobe and it's amazing like, and I'm, and I'm happy for them, but then there's some who they pay and I'm sure that really puts a real strain on their finances.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: splitting room with 800 people. And that's not luxury. I'm sorry. Like putting four people in a hotel room at a luxury conference is not luxury. It's not like, I don't mind splitting the room with like, I've got some of my BFFs. We just love staying together. But it's not luxury to fit a but, and then, you know what I mean?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: So it's like, well, that, that's a problem too. No one should ever have to disclose what they're doing and how, what it took to get there and the credit cards they had to

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: All right.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: just should learn that we need to be a [00:42:00] little more careful with how much we put gravitas on the fact that someone is at something. Being at those things are awesome for new networking. I never regretted any of the big, beautiful luxury conference I've been to. I just think we, it's a mindset shift and say, listen, we don't know the route they took to get there. We don't know

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: what it was, how to pay that off, whatever. Let's just not mark our own success based on that.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: If it is a goal to be at some of these big conferences, that's amazing. There's great education, great networking, but let's not think we're better than each other for having gone or not.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: I think that also brings up how it all ties together. Do you have advice for vendors who feel like they must suck for not being able to afford to go to a luxury conference or not paying for advertising

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: or they are paying for advertising because they haven't been picked up? Do you have advice for those vendors who feel like they can't quite catch up and be where they should be?

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: They feel that they

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Sometimes have to bring in a therapist, right? Because if you're like, why do I suck? I'm like, I don't know if I, that's above my pay grade, probably when it comes to that, right? [00:43:00] Because we all have our own things about ourselves that we're, but I would say, you know. Go back to the stats.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Go back to the stats. I, I'm, I suck 'cause I can't afford to go to this thing. Well, well hold on. If it's a goal to go to X conference, let's talk about it. Maybe you can't do it this year or even the next, but could you set aside a little bit every month and you

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: There are way, are there other areas you can cut when it comes to advertising?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: You know, there's gonna be smart ways to advertise and so and so forth, but it all goes back to your numbers. It all goes back to your cashflow and seeing, and then asking yourself, why is that so important to me? Right?

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yes.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I, why is that so important to me? Is it important 'cause I wanna do it? Or is it important?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Because it seems important to other people. Like there's

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: misnomers out there. I mean, the conversations I have all saved for my memoirs coming out. You know, I'm just kidding. Kind of kidding. But, but there's so many conversations I've had over the years where people say, oh, I really wish I was like that person who's doing all the

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Right.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: that person couldn't pay their bills. Like, I'm not, it's not my business and I'm never gonna say that, but like. [00:44:00] Everything that glitters is not gold, or whatever,

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: term is, right? So I would say ask yourself, why is this so important to me? When I talk to people about speaking, sometimes they'll say, oh, well it's, I wanna diversify revenue streams.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I feel like I have something to teach. And then some people are like, I'm just pissed that my competitors speaking everywhere, and I've been in business 20 more years than them. So it's a vanity metric. Like, Hey, listen, if this is for ego, let's just be honest about it and then go for it, you know? But let's just be honest about why.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I'd rather talk to someone who says that's why it's important to them versus the business of it, you know?

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Love it. Yeah,

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Yeah.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: absolutely.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: So Megan, how can a vendor determine if , paying for advertising, paying to play, make sense, for them and what are the best practices that they should use, , if that's the route that they choose to go on.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Sure. I think it starts with asking yourself anytime something pa, like a paid component. Maybe they're advertising somewhere or they want that placement, or even in a larger conversation we had about going to certain, like conferences and things like that. have to ask yourself what has to happen for this to be success? [00:45:00] why am I doing this and what has to happen? Do, am I looking for, um, you know, it, it, will it make the photographer planner venue happy that I've gotten this, this sort of pseudo placement and that will it attract the right people? Can I do it in a way that's meaningful and still build on that social proof as well?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Like

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: to happen? And that, that really starts with your goals, right? I

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Right.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: other conversation about I'm here, I'm at a, which is not the first day of your career, but it's where you are today and I'm looking to get b, will this pay to play opportunity send you in the right direction?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Um, what are the, you do a pros and cons on this and then of course looking at your own money, like, is this the best use of my money versus spending, you know, getting people Starbucks gift cards in the middle of busy season, say, Hey, I'm just thinking about you. Like, maybe that's a better way to go. You just don't, I, I only think about that 'cause I literally did that this morning to, um, a bunch of people at NAS conference right now.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: So I was sending, I was sending out.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: nice.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Like it was nobody's

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: I couldn't be there this year.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: I.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: But, you know, thinking like that, asking what has to [00:46:00] happen? Will this actually contribute to the goals I have? And, uh, what are the downsides? Am I willing to put up with the downsides as well with that, you know, when I pay and it's like, well, if you do this, paid whatever, you're limited to X, Y, and Z.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Am I cool with that? Um, you're limited in this wedding, can't be seen anywhere else because it's already been here. Am I cool with that? You know, things like that. So what's the worst case scenario and can I survive that? And then do, do I really have this within my budget? And is this the best, truly the best way to get me to point B in my, in my career?

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: And there's obviously a level of, risk, right? With some of this too? you just don't know, even with like the Starbucks gift cards, it could be a great thing or maybe it's just a kind thing that you did for some friends,? Or it could lead to your next big client.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: And I guess the same thing too with publications, ? Sometimes , you budget for it and there's a little bit of research and then there's sometimes just a little bit of faith,? That hopefully it works.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: say that my little Starbucks this morning was more just to be nice. It

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: There you go.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: like, I better get something out of this. [00:47:00] But no, it's, it's putting into people and that's what I'm a big believer in is, is putting time and money into the people around us. And I would absolutely agree with you on across the boards when it comes to that, in asking myself, like, is this the right move?

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: And then, am I putting too much into this move as well? I always get, I know this is not pay to play, but when I'm talking to prospects and they think that PR is gonna save them and get that, it's like, well, no, it's a layered effect. Advertising, pr, networking, being on wip, aborts, all of that is a layered effect to get from A

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Right,

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: beyond.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: magic bullet, there's no one thing. So just make sure that one podcast interview, that one speaking engagement, that one placement, like we can't ride too much on that. It's, it's unfair.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: right.

adrienne_4_07-28-2025_082725: Mm-hmm.

leorah_3_07-28-2025_080926: Yeah.

meghan-ely--she-her-_3_07-28-2025_100941: Everything is cumulative.

Thank you so much, Megan. This has been episode three of It's just My Face Pay to Play. Thank you. Thank you, Megan. Thank you for joining us, Megan. Thank you to our listeners. We'll see you guys next time. [00:48:00] Bye. Bye.